Hey Rod.
I’m just wondering about how to speed up some development/enhancements that would benefit Social Networking -sites. Myself, I’m trying to build a Computer Gamer SN-site, so I could use anything that would create more content (better design & controls, more user settings, better integration with other module vendors (like xmod), rating, forums and much more). Content = Stickiness. Stickiness = Users that will explore site and come back.

Then I thought of Sponsored Enhancements with a twist. How would you feel if we were a few people that together would pay you the money, for you to make some sponsored enhancements?

An ex. – could be any number of people.
Four people need enhancements for the group module.
1. We post a specification (something us 4 all agree upon)
2. You give us a price for the development of the enhancement (say $800)
3. We pay you up front (4 ppl $200 each)
4. You top prioritize the development of the enhancement
5. Enhancement released to us
6. Enhancement becomes standard for module in its next version cycle (in this ex the group module)

The reasons for the “need” to speed up things up are some of us have similar needs but they differ from what you are building with diypoker.com. Your need for future development and indeed your modules, originate from the development of diypoker.com. Our (many of us) needs originate from our users diversity, their data – on which we have slapped your fine ST-modules. Basically Poker is “just” a group or an event at our sites.

Potential enhancements could be of this nature: http://www.smart-thinker.com/Home/Forums/tabid/111/forumid/26/threadid/5919/scope/posts/Default.aspx

 
So Rod and the rest of you reading, what do you think about idea?
/jesper

Wow, it is such a coincidence that you mention this - I am exploring alternative ways of improving the Social Networking Product Suite and this is one of the ways I was investigating further. *EDIT* - Skip this post if you want to get to the details on how Crowd Sourcing might work

In fact, this is almost exactly what I was considering - there are a few facts that one needs to appreciate first (I have always tried to be as open and transparent as always) -

1. Smart-Thinker's primary revenue stream is NOT based on module sales
2. Every customer thinks their enhancement request is critical and the most important
3. The Smart-Thinker Social Networking Product Suite is COMPLEX (due to it's flexibility and power)
4. The Smart-Thinker modules are constantly improving and are going to get a lot better (long term goals?)
5. Enhancements get done on a cost/benefit basis (I am running a business)

Basically I do not make much money off Module Sales to justify spending 6 days a week, 7 hours a day trying to fulfill everyone's request (I actually work 7 days a week, 10-12 hours days but some of this time is on PokerDIY and the rest is on development). I make most of my money off Sponsored Enhancements and consulting work/premium support (which I am trying to do less of now and focus more on development). I am definitely not complaining, but customers need to realize that although they have paid $69 for all the modules it does not mean I can then spend 7 days working on the ideas they suggest, as much as I would like to. I am sure that some DNN companies DO make money off sales alone and I am happy for them. As a small DNN company module sales are NOT our primary source of income nor do I think it ever will be as competition increases and software gets cheaper.

Which leads to the second point - every customer thinks that their particular use-case and enhancement is top priority and should be done immediately. They are almost surprised that the product doesn't do "xyz" (even though I provide free fully-functional trial downloads so that you configure it and see if it matches your requirements) and practically demand that the next version do this. Again, I am not complaining, I do this myself with modules I purchase (although as a fellow module developer I ask nicely ;). It is just a fact I have noticed and have come to expect (if you browse the Smart-Thinker forums you may see some examples of this).

As I mentioned, the Smart-Thinker Product Suite is complex. This is a good and a bad thing (complexity these days normally = bad). They are complex because of the templating and amount of configuration options. These are required to suit as many different scenarios and website requirements as possible. As I found out with my custom Poker Leagues module - I can develop a LOT faster if I do not do it this way and hardcode values and make it specific to my business logic. But then I would not be able to sell them. Unfortunately this complexity increases support time and decreases development time, so finding a balance is important. Likewise, just like the core team (no offense intended, without these guys we would not have jobs!) - Documentation is another aspect that suffers. I can spend less time developing and more time documenting, but then I would get even more complaints about features. It's one of the reasons I try to redirect every support request to the forum to make it a form of live documentation. Many thanks to you Jesper for maintaining the Module Configuration Document - this has helped a lot of people and saves me a lot of time (to spend on development ;)

I am often asked on the long-term goals of Smart-Thinker and I can assure you we are here for the long run. Smart-Thinker has been releasing DNN modules since around 2005 and is here to stay. PokerDIY.com is our very own live social networking site and drives our requirements (which are normally generic social networking requirements). We do not focus on module sales and try to make everyone happy. We use a live, real, succesful social network to identify flaws in the modules and improve them so that you can use them on your social networks. This is an important point - there are DNN companies that pander to every whim and do not have a real live scenario to use the products on (again, there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a comparison on the revenue income focus). We have an online example that our modules work and a real example on how to implement them. Feel free to set up an account (this helps us!) and do some testing on PokerDIY (althougth please bear in mind it is a live site and used by a lot of people). PokerDIY is doing VERY well (over 1000 unique visitors a day) and is about to crack the Alexa 100k. We have BIG plans for PokerDIY and investing a lot of time AND money into it. It is another revenue stream for Smart-Thinker and there is about 6 months to 1 year of development enhancements lined up for the Smart-Thinker modules (and some new modules). Every day customers request more features and these are added to the list if they are good and will benefit the core product.

Which brings me to the last point - Enhancements are prioritized on a Cost/Benefit basis. Yes, at the end of the day we are running a business and no income = no more development. Therefore every single enhancement (whether it is PokerDIY-driven or suggested by anyone else) is subjected to the same review process. Will it benefit the core product? If no, then I am afraid it is not going to make it in. We offer the source for this very reason and you are welcome to outsource it to someone or modify it yourself to meet your specific requirements. If it will benefit the core product, then how long is it going to take to develop? The longer it will take the more it costs Smart-Thinker to develop, so will the rewards be worth it? As I mentioned, this is a business and money makes the world go round. It has to be very beneficial if it is going to take more than a day of development (as I mentioned earlier, I personally choose to work 7 days a week, 10 hour days on average, so my time is valuable to me, more so than money). Please do not be insulted if I cannot commit to it. I have had some very rude customers on Smart-Thinker (I won't name/shame them - their posts are public). A good example is the Recurring Events feature in the Events module. Realistically this is going to take 5-7 days of serious development. I need this feature on PokerDIY but it STILL doesn't mean that I can afford to spend 7 days working on it. It is simple not worth the time spent on it.

So... with all this in mind (and I am open to discuss any of these points) - how to best move forward? This is where I get back to the point of this topic - Group-Sponsored Enhancements, or Crowd Sourcing as I like to refer to it.

My idea was pretty much the same. I will follow up with another post (there's a lot to absorb here!)

Alright,

this all sounds great, so how do we get started - So as a test project, can we start some thread for members that are actually interrested in sponsoring the Recurring Event project? Rod, if you set something up I'll definetelly add my thoughts/specs later today in regards to this upgrade.

Great ideas in regards to group module updates Jesper, I would definetelly want this to happen as well so count me in.

Thanks

Erland

I forgot to mention - this proposed new development method would NOT mean that I only develop features if they are sponsored. As before - I will still make bug fixes and enhancements to the product suite. This is referring to the major roadmap items (but could apply to minor items if you wish to fasttrack them through). Likewise, if a single entity still wants to sponsor an item on their own and have more say over it this is also acceptable.

I am also seriously considering reducing the cost of the Smart-Thinker Product Suite modules if this works. The source product suites and enterprise licenses would be about the same but the fully-functional single portal versions would be cheaper to all. This of course depends on whether or not there are enough willing customers to chip in and sponsor enhancements (the purpose of this thread ;) Please comment....

Jesper wrote Crowd Sourcing is really the revese angle, where many entities create the source and one make the specs and the payment. Its comparable to Out Sourcing, letting one entity create the source, and one make the specs and the payment.   This would be more like Crowd Sponsored Enhancements. Many would make the specs and payment, one will deliver the source.

hmm - I think the word "Crowd Sourcing" is a bit misleasding in this case (due to the word "source") but it is crowdsourcing the funds to sponsor the project. You may be on to something there though - one day people who want to code and put up bids and do the work to. I manage the whole process and everyone is a winner ;)

George Lew wrote The worst part is, DNN Core forum always seems to have Searching Issue... George.

George,

Try using the Google advanced search and direct it to the Smart-Thinker website.

http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en

Steve

Thx for the positive thinking mr Steve J. :) 
Regarding FaceB and MySp as a guide to what the rest of us want I would have to disagree. Why remake FaceB and MySp?

To move ahead: Rodney, did you make some estimates yes? 

Rodney, I think this is a very slippery slope.  Yes, I've sponsored enhancements with DNN Module developers before, or purchased source and done the work internally, but working on a mixed mode revenue model can have many issues.  I think there are really three ways to operate:

1. Product purchases with support/upgrades (like you are now where I can "buy in" to the module and updates for a time period)
         a. A version of this could include levels of support/upgrade for more money (hobby, professional, enterprise).
3. Subscriptions where it operates like a cooperative.  For example, I pay a set yearly fee for a specific subscription period (like Ventrian).  Again, levels here would work.
4. Product Customization Services.  Basically, developing add-ons and extensions on a per client or group of client's basis.

I say a mixed mode product/crowd enhancement funding is slippery because:

1. Customers who bought into a yearlong subscription with ST would expect that you will develop that list of upgrades anyway, otherwise they would simply pay my minimum product fee and move on (less revenue)
2. Who decides what features get developed?  The sponsor with the most money or the total community?
3. What happens to good ideas that are not funded? 
4. Do you miss market opportunities because someone is paying you to work on their feature set, but the market (and your competitors) are outflanking your overall functionality?
5. You end up with a class of service between customers.  Not always good for community development around your modules.

Basically what I hear is that you are not really a module developer.  Your modules are great and took SN on DNN forward quickly, but are a secondary revenue stream for you based on your "other business".  As a customer, this is frustrating because (and I understand why) you can't dedicate the time and attention to module development as you need to "follow the money".   This makes customers less inclined to re-purchase modules (or extend support/upgrades) given that there is not really a commitment to releasing functionality for the community needs.

I hear you when you say its $69 folks and it can't be everything to everyone at the price.  I get that.  In fact I think DNN modules are far too inexpensive right now as developers can easily re-purpose code from other projects, put it on snowcovered and sell it cheap on the side.  This works for a while until it grows and takes up more time to support and fix but because it's so cheap you can't afford to hire people to support it and move it forward, etc.  I see this cycle a lot with DNN and a lot of good modules get shelved after a year because the developer can't leave their "job" to fix/upgrade their modules to a point where they can leave their job.  This is coming from someone who spends about $10,000 annually on DNN, skins and modules not to mention has three people on payroll who develop our own internal modules and support our DNN implementations.  It would be far cheaper for me to pay more for enterprise level modules that to support a full staff and infrastructure around "cheap" modules.

I personally would rather see you either raise the price of your modules (or offer different levels: hobby, professional, enterprise) and combine it with a yearly support/upgrade subscription, or move it to a pure subscription model.  $100 for a yearlong subscription over 1000 customers or $500 across 200 customers is not a bad income for a single developer company on DNN module development.  For this however you would need to have the customers (which is hard to do) but you could then fund development efforts and return feature updates based on the community shaping the product around market driven implementation needs.  Again, I go back to Ventrian as a model that seems to work for customers. 

Lastly, this entire post is not meant to be an attack or negative...quite the contrary.  I think your modules have huge potential and I think customers would gladly pay more for a yearly subscription if they knew what and when new features are coming out and felt like you were developing in a direction that kept your modules innovative for our use (rather than just yours) while moving SN on DNN forward all the time. 

Steve J. wrote  George Lew wrote The worst part is, DNN Core forum always seems to have Searching Issue... George. George, Try using the Google advanced search and direct it to the Smart-Thinker website. http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en Steve

Thank for the advice but I've already using [site:xxx.com xxx] to search all the time. Just sometimes that it is not that effective also.

jesper wrote Regarding FaceB and MySp as a guide to what the rest of us want I would have to disagree. Why remake FaceB and MySp? To move ahead: Rodney, did you make some estimates yes?

Hi Jesper - I have to disagree with your disagreeing ;) But I don't think we need to debate this in too much depth - lets wait until we have discussed a feature and see what happens (I am willing to bet that the end result will be very functionally similar to how the big sites do it, purely because I think they have the resouce to design and research the ideas over time. But lets see how it goes in the discussion amongst the project sponsors for the first poject.

I have not yet had time to make any estimates although I have added some potential projects to the list (a lot based on your groups post). I'm getting between 10-15 new support calls a DAY - very odd as I normally only get 2-3 and nothing has really changed! Can a few people suggest the top 5 features they'd be interested in from the list above and I'll concentrate on those tomorrow?

Airstream345 wrote Rodney, I think this is a very slippery slope. 1. Customers who bought into a yearlong subscription with ST would expect that you will develop that list of upgrades anyway, otherwise they would simply pay my minimum product fee and move on (less revenue) 2. Who decides what features get developed?  The sponsor with the most money or the total community? 3. What happens to good ideas that are not funded?  4. Do you miss market opportunities because someone is paying you to work on their feature set, but the market (and your competitors) are outflanking your overall functionality? 5. You end up with a class of service between customers.  Not always good for community development around your modules. Basically what I hear is that you are not really a module developer.  Your modules are great and took SN on DNN forward quickly, but are a secondary revenue stream for you based on your "other business".  As a customer, this is frustrating because (and I understand why) you can't dedicate the time and attention to module development as you need to "follow the money".   This makes customers less inclined to re-purchase modules (or extend support/upgrades) given that there is not really a commitment to releasing functionality for the community needs. I hear you when you say its $69 folks and it can't be everything to everyone at the price.  I get that.  In fact I think DNN modules are far too inexpensive right now as developers can easily re-purpose code from other projects, put it on snowcovered and sell it cheap on the side.  This works for a while until it grows and takes up more time to support and fix but because it's so cheap you can't afford to hire people to support it and move it forward, etc.  I see this cycle a lot with DNN and a lot of good modules get shelved after a year because the developer can't leave their "job" to fix/upgrade their modules to a point where they can leave their job.  This is coming from someone who spends about $10,000 annually on DNN, skins and modules not to mention has three people on payroll who develop our own internal modules and support our DNN implementations.  It would be far cheaper for me to pay more for enterprise level modules that to support a full staff and infrastructure around "cheap" modules.

Thanks for the feedback – definitely interesting to hear.

1)    Hmm – I really tried to change this perception – I don’t like to feel obligated to release updates and I don’t think there are many software markets where customers buy a product and hassle (I wanted a better word, but I DO get hassled ;)  the seller for more features. This seems to be a DotNetNuke issue. For example, if something is missing on Windows or in BaseCamp I don’t email them and ask them to include it and then keep asking for updates etc. I might suggest it but at the end of the day I am buying the product As-Is. Any future updates are a luxury/bonus but I do not buy the software and expect it to be improved. It seems to be different in DNN – there is a lot of pressure on DNN developers to keep releasing and improving software. I think this COULD be adopted from the attitude to the core – they keep improving for no cost and this attitude prevails to the commercial DNN world. Just an observation.
2)    The majority. Everyone pays the same so there is no sponsor with more money. Only paying sponsors have any say in the spec and disputes are settled by majority.
3)    I am going to keep developing as usual when I have time. This goes back to my main post above –all enhancements will be looked at from a cost/benefit POV.
4)    I focus on the Smart-Thinker Product Suite – competition is good for everyone and drives the products quality up. It’s no different here and improved output/features can only be a good thing. Only time will tell though.
5)    I don’t think this will be the case. Project Sponsors get no special favours when their project ends. They are not entitled to more support before, during or after. But they are funding a feature so they have a say in how it works.

“Basically what I hear is that you are not really a module developer.  Your modules are great and took SN on DNN forward quickly, but are a secondary revenue stream for you based on your "other business".  As a customer, this is frustrating because (and I understand why) you can't dedicate the time and attention to module development as you need to "follow the money".   This makes customers less inclined to re-purchase modules (or extend support/upgrades) given that there is not really a commitment to releasing functionality for the community needs.”

I hear and understand you completely. I have tried to approach this as honestly as possible and I have made my long term intentions clear. I would not say I am NOT a module developer but it’s not where my main revenue comes from. I believe the market is not mature enough to support DNN module development full time – there are much better opportunities for a person with my skillset elsewhere.  BUT… I love developing modules and I believe I develop good and useful modules. I believe my customer support is very good and I have a good, close relation with many Smart-Thinker customers.  The Smart-Thinker Product Suite has matured over the last 3 years and will keep doing so (I have seen many other module developers come and go). I am committed to developing modules for the foreseeable future and the whole point of this post is to try and find a method that increases output and makes everyone happy. I will let my modules do the talking. If a customer is not happy then they will vote with their feet.

Module Pricing: This is a tricky subject. There are a couple of different types of customers – Freebies, Hobbyists and Enterprise. The Freebies expect everything for free in the true open-source model and seem to be offended when a company profits on their work. I am like this sometimes and there are a couple of great free modules out there (the core being the best example). The Hobbyists are happy to pay $60 for a module for their family portal but will expect good support and a high quality module for that. They don’t buy the source and expect you to make any change in the source if it does not quite meet their requirements. I blame Scott from Ventrian for this as he is releases enhancements at an astounding rate and is a good listener (note – I am joking, Scott  and I collaborate a lot but he has set an exceedingly high standard for the rest of us ;) Lastly there is the Enterprise market  - people who have the company capital behind them and will pay what it takes to get the solution done quickly, correctly and with good support. They will buy the source, make changes if necessary and generally are the ones sponsoring enhancements. I sometimes fall into this category where I will buy a module regardless of cost if it serves the purpose. An example is the URL Rewriter from Ifinity. It is ridiculously expensive (and I suggested this to Bruce ;) because you have to pay per portal but it is essential to the success of PokerDIY (check it out if you do not use it!) so it was a no-brainer to buy. So the questions is what licensing/pricing structure do you adopt to please everyone?

For the record, I am even considering releasing my modules for free (the single portal, fully functional version), but only if CrowdSourcing will work. I am restructuring my pricing/support model - more on this later (prices of a single good module are over $100 on SnowCovered now whereas I sell a complete product suite for $69 with 2 months of updates) I tend to find that this then generates 1 hour of support and 5 days of requests from each new customer so something is not right and this cannot be sustained, hence this post). For those who have been around since 2005 you may remember that Smart-Thinker used to have a subscription model (there are a few customers still on the $35 for 6 months for all modules and source plans) but this was changed around 2 years ago because there was too much pressure to “keep releasing enhancements”. This is why I want to test a new development model like CrowdSourcing to try and increase output and make it more viable for us module developers.

I was thinking today about what Jesper said earlier in this thread about CrowdSourcing the work too – in the future anyone (with a high standard of coding skills – I am very proud of the Smart-Thinker code!) could come here and offer to develop one of these features. The project sponsors spec it out,  they do the work, I manage and incorporate it back into the code line and the customers get their enhancement. Everyone is a winner…

Hey Jesper,

No worries, we'll never agree on everything!

I think Rod has a point, but we're all - at least to some degree - doing what all of the other SN sites are doing...if that wasn't the case we wouldn't be using these modules!! :)

That said, if you have several *hundred million* users and the $$ for UI research (like the SN's I mentioned), the chances are little better than "pretty good"  that you know what you're doing - that's all I'm trying to say!

Steve

jesper wrote Thx for the positive thinking mr Steve J. :)  Regarding FaceB and MySp as a guide to what the rest of us want I would have to disagree. Why remake FaceB and MySp? To move ahead: Rodney, did you make some estimates yes?

Steve J. wrote My enhancement suggestion is kind of mushing a couple of them together.  IMHO, the core of any SN site is the immediate functionality of the profile module suite itself.  Obviously, if you're not trying to be a SN website, then it's not as high a priority... :)   Here is goes:   1) Merge the Wall and the Feed events into 1 module and allow filtering.  That way there is only 1 module to worry about, and it can have many different "looks".  It could be just wall posts, status updates, friends updates, personal updates. 2) Facebook style comments on all actions - this is an extremely important part of keeping the community lively.  So it would allow comments to be added like FB directly on the Wall/Feed so it's not cumbersome (i.e. - you don't have to visit another profile to comment) 3) Now that all of the "actions" are in the same module, build a "Notifications" module to make email subscriptions easier to manage - sending too many emails can annoy users - for example Send emails when: You receive a friend request: (on/off) A message is posted to your Wall: (on/off) A message is posted to a Wall where you have posted: (on/off)   Maybe enhance the ST API in some way so you can include other modules in the notifications since they will be a part of the feed - A blog entry (Ventrian) or video upload (BizModules) etc.   Thanks for listening! Steve

jesper, excellent points.  I agree.  But I also think most people using DNN and third party modules are typically just trying to emulate functionality found elsewhere.  For me I am working on niche version of SN sites and many users simply want my sites to work like FB (since FB has trained them already) but be more focused with specific functionality for their interests.  I think using them as a model helps keep things focused here and ensures a low barrier of use for SN users.  In addition to Rodney's modules I have some things that I think will set my site apart for my niche and will develop those myself.  Lastly if I wanted to develop a market changer (like Google did to Yahoo) I would keep that proprietary. 

Rodney - thanks for replying to my post.  I agree with all of your points.  The one thing I worry about as you make a pricing/bundling transition is attracting enterpise level funding without a predictable feature set and timeline (a product roadmap).  Since this crowdsourcing model depends on funding specific features based on the number of participaing sponsors and their ability to fund part or all of that segment of the project - it's makes it harder for an enterprise customer to committ to a higher level of fees/supscription/product expenses if they don't know what or when - or even if a feature will be delivered.  Personally, I would be more interested in buying into an "enterprise" level fee structure if I knew the feature set you outlined above would in fact be completed within some sort of timeline I can plan around.  It's still far less expensive than staffing it out and likely faster than rolling my own. 

I know I sound like I'm beating a dead horse here but we just went through a major value proposition change with our core business.  We eventually decided to give our base product away for free.  Support for that product was moved to community only.  For those customers who need support and management or have specific management needs, we work with them on a specific value based fee structure.  This change allowed us to aquire new customers easily, but prevented the free customers from consuming tons of support resources and allowed us to focus on the profitable clients who utlimately help us refine the product and make it better for everyone.  We also added a person dedicated to trying to move customers from the "free" to the "fee" model as their needs exceed the "no frills" support model they get on that program.  It was a huge risk for our company to make this transition but what we've found already is that we now have higher revenues per client for less work ( = more profit) and have been able to reduce our overall support costs.  Client retention is also holding - even in this economy which is a huge success in our industry and clients seem happier with the relationship.  A win win win.  So it is possible to do what you are talking about - people just need to know what they get for their money. 

OK, enough of my soapboxing.  I want the entire list you outlined but I'll post up some specific items as well.

Steve J. wrote Here is goes: 1) Merge the Wall and the Feed events into 1 module and allow filtering.  That way there is only 1 module to worry about, and it can have many different "looks".  It could be just wall posts, status updates, friends updates, personal updates. 2) Facebook style comments on all actions - this is an extremely important part of keeping the community lively.  So it would allow comments to be added like FB directly on the Wall/Feed so it's not cumbersome (i.e. - you don't have to visit another profile to comment) 3) Now that all of the "actions" are in the same module, build a "Notifications" module to make email subscriptions easier to manage - sending too many emails can annoy users - for example Send emails when: You receive a friend request: (on/off) A message is posted to your Wall: (on/off) A message is posted to a Wall where you have posted: (on/off) Maybe enhance the ST API in some way so you can include other modules in the notifications since they will be a part of the feed - A blog entry (Ventrian) or video upload (BizModules) etc.

1) Merging the modules requires a lot of thought. Just after I released the Wall module Facebook released the "new" Facebook with this design. Obviously it's not feasible playing catchup all the time so I am relucatant to do this unless there is a real need for it -  the backend of the StoryFeed and commenting are completely different - it would be tricky to integrate these into one module unless they were designed from the ground up (like Facebook must have done).

The filtering is a very good enhancement though - I have done an esitmate for this feature here. Please reply to this thread and let me know your requirements if this is something you would be willing to sponsor.

2) Here is the time esitmate. Reply to this thread if you would be willing to sponsor this feature.

3) I am not sure this is the best way forward. My approach would be to make the Ventrian Private Messaging module a lot more prominent on the site and use that for notifications. For example, there would be no email comms except if a user has selected the "Notify me by email when I receive a PM" in the PM module. All friend requests, event invites, group invites, wall post notifications would queue a PM to the user instead of an email (This would be a module setting so it could also send an email or just send an email). Ventrian's module would handle all the notifications. I have suggested this many times to Scott (well over a year ago ;) and I think if he could expose an API for his PM module it opens up a world of possiblity for 3rd party module developers. I would not want to rewrite this functionality and it is a relatively small change to his module for a big functional gain. Please let him know on his forums if you think this is a good idea so he knows that it would be beneficial to do and worth his while.

Airstream345 wrote I know I sound like I'm beating a dead horse here but we just went through a major value proposition change with our core business.  We eventually decided to give our base product away for free.  Support for that product was moved to community only.  For those customers who need support and management or have specific management needs, we work with them on a specific value based fee structure.  This change allowed us to aquire new customers easily, but prevented the free customers from consuming tons of support resources and allowed us to focus on the profitable clients who utlimately help us refine the product and make it better for everyone.  We also added a person dedicated to trying to move customers from the "free" to the "fee" model as their needs exceed the "no frills" support model they get on that program.  It was a huge risk for our company to make this transition but what we've found already is that we now have higher revenues per client for less work ( = more profit) and have been able to reduce our overall support costs.  Client retention is also holding - even in this economy which is a huge success in our industry and clients seem happier with the relationship.  A win win win.  So it is possible to do what you are talking about - people just need to know what they get for their money.

Thanks for the feedback - this is not an area I have a lot of experience in so I will possible contact you for some ideas when I review the pricing plan. I'll try keep this as a separate task from this one until we see how well this works.

I was thinking a little bit more about making the product suite free - It would come with community support only (ie. I have no obligation to answer questions although I probably would ;) or it would generate far too much support. I guess this is similar to what the DNN core have just announced with the Pro version of DNN. I could then concentrate more on support for the Enterprise customers. The more people that had access to the products the better I would say as it helps refines the product and improve the quality. It would also induce more project sponsors hopefully which means everyone is a winner. I was seriously considering making the Smart-Thinker modules complete open-source so that more developers would get involved but I think it is important that someone leads the project and takes control of the roadmap and I don't have enough time to manage other people at the moment. Having said that, if anyone wants to submit modified source to me I will happily review it and incorporate it into the base codeline IF it benefits the core product and is of a high-enough standard.

Rodney Joyce wrote I personally would like to work on the Background Styler to allow the Group Owner/Profile Owner/Event Owner to change the background image of the page. It is a relatively small requirement and adds a lot of functionality to all modules (6 hours work). Comments?

Hey Rod,

Let me preface this by saying that page views are the most important aspect to me personally since that is where you can get income.  The comment options, and filter options are things that get people changing pages/views on the website, so for me having the functionality improved before bells and whistles is very important.

I would be into the background styler if it had 2 modes, "background mode" or "header mode".  The admin could opt to let the user choose which mode or force a mode.  With "header mode" it would work like the common blog headers and have an admin defined width so you can keep the site layout consistent.  Any uploaded image *larger* than the defined width would be scaled down to size.  The problem I have with backgrounds is that in many cases the user has no design sense and it can make the site look like crap. ;)  I probably wouldn't want my users to do that, however with a header you have more control. (i.e. - they can be happy to personalize their profile, but can't muck up the look of the page too badly.  I just randomly went to blogspot, and it gives you plenty of examples by hitting "next blog".  Not all of them have an "image header", but most have at least done something with text.

http://roetzelreport.blogspot.com/

Thanks!
Steve

Yes, sorry - I thought your Comments? at the end meant put it in this thread!
Steve

Steve J. wrote By the way, the groups mods could be easier than we might think if Scott modified his Ventrians News Article module to accept a ST GroupID - Steven Webster is the brilliant one that thought of that! Steve

Steve - thanks for the props.  That was me over at Ventrian.  I just didn't get a warm and fuzzy that Scott was interested in thay concept.  Something like News Article when connected to a group from Smart Thinker could become the basis for a group discussions module (taking the Wall) to a thread discussion level.  It's something I've considered working on myself in the past - adding a GroupID to NA and to Simple Gallery for the same reasons.