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  Forums  DotNetNuke  Smart-Thinker E...  Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!
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New Post 3/7/2007 10:06 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)
Modified By Rodney Joyce  on 1/12/2008 5:52:00 PM)

I want to implement Recurring Events in the ST Events module, but there are a number of architectural design decisions to make.

 

*UPDATE*: Please note that the Recurring Events feature has NOT been scheduled for a release and there is no definite release date at this stage. I am investigating various implementation methods in this thread. Please download the trials if you wish to evaluate the software against your requirements, but do not purchase the software on the basis that recurring events will be in the solution in the future.

The biggest one is how the records are stored in the database. For example, I think there are 2 possible ways of doing this:

1) Have a flag or settings against a single event record that marks it as a "Recurring Event". When the display renders the record it populates each date with the event as if it were on that date, but in reality there is only one record.

2) When you are editing, you specify how far to go ahead in the future and on save an event will actually be made for each instance within this period.

There are pros and cons for each method.

Method 1)  Less database work and storage. Each instance is not actually an instance and I am not sure you would be able to have RSVPs against each event or modify a particular event. If you change the master they all change. This makes it easy if you want to delete or edit it though.

Method 2) Can't go to infinity like method 1, but as each record is persisted in the database you can then treat them as completely normal (e.g. PP and RSVPs) as if they were created manually X months into the future. This is more of a quick way of creating events x months ahead - you can then edit each event. The downside is that you can't make changes to the master and ripple them down. You'd have to change each one (unless a lot of time was spent on the Edit function.  The Smart-Thinker architecture may actually make this method much easier to implement, but would it meet people's requirements?

I came across a blog post on the Ventrian site which talks about this a bit more... very interesting.

Please give your views on this - how do you see Recurring Events working on your site, and if you are technical please give your views on the methods (are there any more?)


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 5/6/2007 8:01 PM
  brian c
32 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

Any news on recurring events?

I'm not sure how Method 1 would work when you should allow RSVP to individual events.

I would think Method 2 should work fine...   just create 1 year's worth of events ..   actually could allow that to be a configurable option.

However, what if someone wants to modify the full series of events...  so that would have to be tracked ..  that it is a recurring event.

Also, still allow (like Outlook), edit series or just that occurrence.

 

 
New Post 5/10/2007 4:57 PM
  brian c
32 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (United States)

any thoughts, time lines?

 
New Post 5/11/2007 3:46 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)
Modified By Rodney Joyce  on 5/11/2007 4:46:56 AM)

I'm afraid not. Although I now have a very good idea of how to do it I don't have the time to schedule it in, so it's a few months away still. I think more important than this is the Event Templating (like UserProfile Templating) so people can chose how instances of their event detais look (and then I want to abstract it so Event Creators can chose Templates to "skin" their event in  (like ebay does on their auctions).

 

The problem with Recurring Events is that it is going to take at least a week of dev and I can't justify this in time/money. It is near the top of the Events roadmap though.

 

 


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 5/11/2007 5:17 PM
  brian c
32 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (United States)

If I ( and hopefully ) a couple others make a financial contribution could that get it moved to the top?

I have a customer who wants it and of course would pay some unknown amount...

I know you dont want to get into the habit of taking money when they have paid for a subscription..   but sometimes a custom development request that will make it into the core product benefits everyone...

 
New Post 5/17/2007 2:10 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)
Modified By Rodney Joyce  on 5/17/2007 3:14:51 AM)

Brian,

 

I am open to discussion on this matter. The UserProfile templating (the key component in all Smart-Thinker modules now that shows the user lists with tempates) was a requested enhancement paid for by a customer.

 

My requirements for such features is that they must benefit all ST customers, be generic (or I have to make them generic with settings etc.) and be worth the time doing. The way it works is that the customer and I draft and agree upon a spec and a delivery date (this becomes my top priority). My time is paid hourly with a cap (I find DNN development so time consuming and hard to estimate) so this safeguards the costs running away.

 

Send me a mail rod * smart-thinker.com if you would like to discuss this further.


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 6/18/2007 3:57 AM
  Northgate
1 posts
No Ranking


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

Hi there,

I have just started evaluating a trial version of the Events module.  Great stuff.  Unfortunately I really, really need the ability to schedule weekly and monthly recurring events.  

Some specific examples:  A meeting is scheduled for the 3rd Thursday of every month.

Other events examples include:  Every Thursday, same time but the venue changes and hence will need to ability to easily modify the venue each week.

Other meetings are schedule at the same time each week, but there is a last minute confirmation whether the meeting will be held that specific week.

Finally, we have meetings that occur on the same day each week, except during holiday periods. Hence it would be good to have an convenient method to forward schedule the times that these meetings will not be held.

What's the estimate timeline for a release that will include recurring event support?

Mitch

 

 

 
New Post 6/19/2007 3:48 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

Hi Mitch,

 

Unfortunately since going full time on Smart-Thinker module request priorities are now scheduled according to cost/benefit as opposed to nice to have (like they were when I was working on Smart-Thinker parttime with my full time programmer job).

 

This means that an enhancement like this (a weeks work at least) mean that it would have to generate a lot of sales to make it worthwhile doing - unfortunately the bare reality is that there's no money in module development which means that big changes like this get pushed back a lot.

 

The other option (I go into detail on it in another thread) is a paid-for enhancement. For example, the profile-templating was paid for by a customer - in this scenario I work with the client to draft and agree upon a spec, and it becomes my top priority until it is signed off.

It's a real pity as I have hundreds of good ideas but they are just not worth the time they will take to do, and unfortunately as this is a very large enhancement it has not yet been scheduled.


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 6/29/2007 5:05 PM
  brian c
32 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (United States)

Yet also buying a 'Subscription' means that modules will be enhanced ...

So..  how much for the source to events?  

your cost is not how much to do them.. but to get new customers and retain existing ones..  on the 'subscription' ...

 
New Post 6/29/2007 5:07 PM
  brian c
32 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (United States)

also curious... you say there is no money in this yet you are doing it full-time...    so are you not working on these modules at all?

It's going on two months and those two releases are small enhancements...

 
New Post 6/30/2007 7:01 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

 brian wrote

Yet also buying a 'Subscription' means that modules will be enhanced ...

So..  how much for the source to events?  

your cost is not how much to do them.. but to get new customers and retain existing ones..  on the 'subscription' ...

No, I switched from a subscription about a year ago - people did not like recurring charges. It's now a one off payment for the product suite. There is no guarentee new versions will be released - please note that you buy the product suite as-is. You can see the cost of the modules with source here. I prefered the subscription model but 20% of customers complained about the recurring charges and did not understand the model and it also meant I was forced to work on updates constantly. This way customers can buy the modules and enhance them as they please.

 

 

 


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 6/30/2007 7:10 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

 brian wrote

also curious... you say there is no money in this yet you are doing it full-time...    so are you not working on these modules at all?

It's going on two months and those two releases are small enhancements...

Yes, I can confirm that there is very little money to be made in module development unless you make a generic engine product like XMOD. I sell between 10-15 suites a month, and most people buy the $70 package. Occasionally people pay for enhancements for the modules or premium support but otherwise I repeat - DNN module development is NOT the way to make money.

 

I work full time on Smart-Thinker AND PokerDIY. I spend most of my time working on a custom league module on PokerDIY and PR/SEO to ensure I stay at the top of Google.

 

Please note that I cannot commit to enhancing the product suite - when you purchase the suite you buy it as-is and can enhance the source to match your requirements. I do believe this is standard for DNN modules and all software. It is important that you download the free trials to see if it matches your requirements before purchasing. I have tried to make the modules as generic as possible but there is no ways they can meet everyone's requirements and scenarios.

 

Please don't get me wrong - I am not complaining - you asked if DNN dev made me money and I am trying to answer as honestly as possible.


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 7/2/2007 11:05 AM
  BDS
7 posts
5th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

 

Well said and completely understood.
 
Your modules have the potential for exponential growth as DNN becomes adopted in the enterprise or by more developers. If you can find the time to get them ready with all the brilliant features and ideas you have in mind, I strongly believe you'll be the man everyone turn to first for help. The XMOD module you mention, I suspect had a lot of work put into its development. You're in the ground floor of an opportunity that could make you money or bring you steady work. You're doing a great job, but please find the time to lead so all of us can follow.
 
Wish I was as brilliant as you. Maybe you should consider some kind of partnership to move ahead. The richest man that ever lived was King Solomon. He became rich by having several partners. Can you name any one who made it big without partners?
 
Remember Smart-Thinker, the Genius Modules…
 
New Post 7/5/2007 4:22 AM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

Thanks for your kind words! I really do appreciate feedback from customers and it's nice to hear compliments.

 

Was King Solomon richer than Bill Gates? ;)

 

To make money out of DNN dev you either need to design a product from scratch that functions as an engine and is constantly enhancable (like XMOD) or you need to make your money on services and customisations. My requirements were for specific social networking-orientated modules, so I chose the later. Unfortunately the average DNN user is not willing to pay more that a few bucks for a module - bear in mind that most DNN users are hobbyists. So it is almost a catch-22. There's no real point in module developers making modules as you spend months on development for a few hundred dollars, and yet the market demand advanced modules.

 

There's another point that I don't think I have mentioned counting against DNN dev. It is PAINFULLY slow. I made a little custom module on PokerDIY to release a password for a game - it checks your forum posts/profile and a couple of other criteria (all cached) - it was really simple and I thought it would take 2 days after I designed it on paper. It took me a whole week due to the annoying speed of Visual Studio and ASP.NET. So the plain and simple truth is that DNN module dev is NOT fun, and very time consuming. And no one is willing to pay for this time.

 

I think the only thing that can solve this problem is time. The modules need to mature over time to match the functionality offered in other CMSs like PHPNuke and Joomla. The problem is that there are thousands of people hacking together PHP script, but a lot fewer .NET programmers.

 

 


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 10/28/2007 6:07 PM
  Liz
1 posts
No Ranking


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (N/A)

Hi Rodney,

I would like to be able to make events recurr every half hour.  I want to use the module for appointments. 

I need a module to schedule 200 short appointments over a weekend.  I want users to be able to see what times are available, choose a time, and sign up for an appointment (I have up to 10 slots available every thirty minutes)

Users should not be able to see the names of other appointment holders.  They should get an e-mail of instructions after signing up. 

They should be able to cancel and reschedule themselves, and the admin should be able to schedule and cancel appointments.

I have not been able to find a module on Snowcovered that does all this.  Your module seems the closest.  I'll be keeping an eye on updates.

 

Thanks!

Liz

 
New Post 11/1/2007 11:02 PM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (Australia)

Hi Liz,

I'm afraid that your requirements (time-orientated scheduler) are quite different from the Event module's original purpose - I don't want to get your hopes up, but currently it only works as a day-scheduler. I did see a web-planner type module on Snow, but that was a while ago. Could you raise your requests as Feature Requests please so I can see how much it is demand...


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 11/1/2007 11:05 PM
  Rodney Joyce
3064 posts
www.DNNDir.com
1st Level Poster




Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (Australia)

Actually - I see you have already done this - great.


Thanks
Rodney
See our modules in action on PokerDIY, a social network for home poker players

Smart-Thinker DotNetNuke Development Blog
 
New Post 1/15/2008 10:17 PM
  beneuto
19 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (Australia)

 

I would suggest option 2.   Another advantage of that is you can create a series of "template" events to be tweaked individually.   e.g. you might have basically the same event with the same people but the location might change from week to week.

 

 

 
New Post 6/7/2008 8:55 AM
  Michael Gerholdt
19 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: Recurring Events - Ideas and Suggestions Wanted!  (United States)

Option 2. option 1 just doesn't scale to meet the real world.

Has this feature made its way into the module yet? If not, any plans?